Dear Readers,
I wrote this post a year or two ago, and I deleted it. But now I'm upset that the Matthew Shepard story turned out to be false, so I'll put this back up. I feel the same way now about homosexuality as I did when I originally wrote this. I believe that acting out on homosexual desires is a choice. I don't think people are born gay. Let me say, though, that I'm a sinner too. Feel free to point out my sins to me.
Enjoy.
Dear Readers,
George Orwell wrote that "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four."
Well, 2 + 2 = 4, and homosexual behavior is sinful.
I know this offends some people. I'm not trying to be offensive; I'm just trying to proclaim the beautiful truth that there is right and wrong in the world. I want to add my voice to the many others who assert that God has spoken to us, his children, through scriptures, through prophets, through nature, and through his spiritual influence and He has declared homosexual behavior to be sinful. That's what the Jews believe, that's what most Christians believe, that's certainly what the Muslims believe, and that's what I believe.
We're living in a world that is increasingly accepting of homosexuality. It seems like the voices in favor of homosexuality are growing louder and that the voices opposed to homosexuality are growing quieter.
I've been kind of shocked at the way conservative radio talk shows in my neck of the woods have handled the Sheriff Paul Babeu story. If you haven't heard, Arizona Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu is gay. He took a racy picture of himself and texted it to his now ex-lover. The scandal has been all over the news. My beef is, almost all of the "conservative" talk radio shows, mostly the great Mike Broomhead show, have said, "Hey, we don't care that Sheriff Babeu is gay. He's a good Sheriff. Who cares what he does in his bedroom? Maybe he shouldn't have sent the pictures, but I have no problem with supporting him."
Well, I do have a problem with supporting Sheriff Babeu, especially for his bid for U.S. Representative in the new CD 4. I've decided to vote for the other Paul, the dentist from Flagstaff, Paul Gosar. I like state senator Ron Gould, but I don't think he has much of a chance. I think the CD 4 Republican primary is turning into a two man race between Gosar and Babeu. And yes, the gay issue has helped me make up my mind. I'm not alone. I know there are a lot of conservative, religious folks in the rural parts of Arizona- people who Babeu seeks to represent- who won't vote for him because he's gay.
Is it bigoted to vote against Babeu because he's gay? I don't think so. Well, I don't know. Maybe it is. But is being bigoted such a bad thing? And what does that word "bigot" mean, anyway? I think the word gets thrown around too much. It's a way of labeling people, dismissing them, and ending thoughtful conversations. Someone once said that taxonomy is the death of science. Along that same vein, I'm saying that label-lobbing is the end of meaningful political discourse.
See, I don't think it's bigoted to vote against Romney because he's Mormon, either. If I sincerely thought that Mormonism was a Satanic cult, I couldn't in good conscience vote for a Mormon. Romney has to understand that he's going to lose some votes, if only a small fraction, because of his religion. Likewise, Babeu has to understand that his sexual orientation is going to lose him some votes. And I think he lost my vote.
Now, will I support him for Sheriff, if he runs for re-election? I haven't made up my mind yet. There's a big difference between enforcing the laws and making the laws. I don't feel comfortable with a homosexual making laws regarding the family. A homosexual at his or her core can't share my pro-traditional-family, Christian values.
Look, Democrats were tickled pink in 2008 when they had the choice between nominating the first black President or the first female President. Why? Shouldn't Democrats have been more concerned about policies and records, not gender and race? Well, identity politics these days preaches that our elected representatives ought to not only represent our political beliefs, but also our ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and whatever other category the liberals can make up. Today liberals are complaining that there aren't enough Asian-Americans in Congress. Tomorrow they'll be complaining that there aren't enough bronies in Congress.
Well, if the Left can use identity politics when it suits their purposes, why can't the Right? Sheriff Paul Babeu is a gay man. That's his identity. I'd rather not have someone with that identity representing me, or executing law and order. His "alternative lifestyle" goes against God's laws, and God's order. And his homosexual actions may be against man's laws, too. Are there still anti-fornication laws or some vaguely-worded indecency statute on the books?
To be fair, I want to say that Paul Babeu is a great man. He's a hero, in many respects. He has more guts than I do when it comes to defending the country. He was a Marine for 20 years. He keeps me and my family safe from Mexican drug cartels and from local ragamuffins, and for that I thank him. I wish more people shared his zeal for public service and his sense of fiscal restraint and national defense. But when it comes to social conservatism, Babeu's dead wrong.
But I even hesitate to vote for him for Sheriff. Would Jesus vote for him? Sometimes I wonder if Jesus would even be a registered voter. Wouldn't it kind of taint the Messiah's divine reputation if he belonged to a political party? I feel comfortable picturing Christ as a Republican, though. Ha ha ha. No, just kidding... sort of.
Having more gay people in power is bad for the moral fabric of the country. It teaches children that it's OK to be gay. But it's not OK to be gay! It's actually very very bad! Or maybe I should say that it's okay if you struggle with same-gender attraction, as long as you don't act on your carnal impulses. My advice to gay people would be, either go celibate, or get in a heterosexual, chaste relationship, and then fake it 'til you make it!
(This isn't hate speech. This is love speech. I love homosexuals. Christians strive to love the sinner, but hate the sin.)
Sincerely,
Telemoonfa
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28 comments:
I gotta be honest Telemoonfa, this is the worst thing I have ever seen you put up on your blog.
Have you ever considered that you could be wrong about homosexuality?
Consider for a moment the sexual attraction you have towards the opposite sex. Were you created this way? Is this an innate characteristic? Could you force yourself to be sexually attracted to the same sex the way you are attracted to the opposite sex?
The sexual attraction gay people feel towards members of the same sex is the same as the attraction you have towards the opposite sex. That is not a choice. That is part of their nature. Did you consciously choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? I didn't. It's just they way God made me. Sure, people can choose to act against their nature. You could choose to enter a same sex relationship. But what kind of life would that be to act against your nature that way? Why should gay people be expected to act against their nature?
Also, your recipe of celibacy or faking-it-til-you-make-it is unworkable and a recipe for disaster. Most people have sexual urges. Why should only gay people be expected to never act on their sexual urges? I think that's wrong. Gay people trying to fake being straight has caused disaster after disaster. A member of a stake presidency explained to me a few years ago that the church used to encourage gay people to do this. However, after witnessing how much pain this ended up causing people, the church stopped. Would you want your daughter to marry a gay man who was trying to fake being straight? How is that good for either person in the relationship?
I could go on, but I'll stop. I think you are wrong on this on Telemoonfa. If God didn't want gay people, He shouldn't have made them.
The Boid
Wow, you sure have changed a lot. Maybe you've been living in L.A. for too long.
Maybe my thinking now on this topic reflects the reality of the situation more than my prior thinking. Is that a possibility?
Are you going to answer any of the questions I asked?
The Boid
There are alot of ex-gay's. That proves that it is a big lie that God made Gay's gay, and they can not change. Read the book "ex-Gay?"and you will know homo sexuals can and do change. I think Ellen Degeneras ex gay partner is now hetro sexual.
Blogging is probably not the best way to bring up touchy topics like this telemoonfa.
But America is not a theocracy. American Government is godless. the people make the laws- the people decide whether or not to accept homosexuality.
Also, let their own conscience be the judge. its really not your place to make appeals to your own religion to condemn homosexuals. (though deciding not to vote for a homosexual is hardly condemning)
Boid- God did not make homosexuals. Humans are fallen and imperfect.
Anonymous at 8:59pm,
You are correct that some people are ex-gay, but I don't think this changes the fact that there are people who are fundamentally exclusively gay. I don't think sexuality is an either/or thing. I think some people truly have a choice in the matter and can make what choice feels right to them. And like anything else, sometimes people change their choices during the course of a lifetime. Hence, Anne Heche.
There are books about ex-Catholics, Muslims, Evangelicals, Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, Mormons, Atheists, straight people, gay people, etc, etc. The presence of ex-[fill in the blank], doesn't mean that some people are not fundamentally [fill in the blank].
The Boid
Paul,
I don't believe that to be gay means the person is fallen and imperfect. I think this is a damaging teaching that can lead to a lot of self-hate for someone who is gay. I don't think this is good.
If gay people are attracted to the same sex in the same way that hetero people are attracted to the opposite sex (and I believe they are) I think it is just part of their nature, not a shortcoming. And if it is the same, why would being hetero not make someone fallen and imperfect but being gay would? That doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of things that make us fallen and imperfect, but I don't think our sexuality is one of them.
The Boid
When a fundamentally exclusively gay person changes to a hetro sexual it proves that the pro gay "God made me that way" statement is a big lie.
Reading this makes me really glad that you didn't stick with teaching. I would hate for homosexual students to have a teacher who is so close-minded and blinded by his religion as to think this way about something he cannot truly understand, and probably never will.
Anonymous at 7:26pm,
When a straight person changes to gay does that mean that the pro-straight "God made me that way" statement is a big lie also?
The Boid
Boid,
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. Here’s some of my responses:
"Have you ever considered that you could be wrong about homosexuality?"
I think I've considered it. Of course I tolerate people with a different view. I've acted in plays with gay people before. I've known some gay people kind of well, and I believe that they believe that they were born gay. And they’re often great people, and fun to be around. But, like many Christians, I believe that in the beginning, God made Adam and Eve. I do believe that God wants us to form heterosexual marriages. I believe that Satan is a real being who puts thoughts into people's heads, and one thought that he's been putting into an awful lot of heads lately is: "You were born gay. Homosexual behavior is not sinful. It's beautiful."
"Could you force yourself to be sexually attracted to the same sex the way you are attracted to the opposite sex?"
I believe I could, if the circumstances were right. Like, if I was in prison, and there were no women anywhere, then I could be gay. Or if I was a Spartan soldier and I was fighting alongside a bunch of hunks, then I could be gay. Or maybe even if I got a part in a touring Broadway play, then I could be gay! People can get used to a lot of things.
The Chinese have become used to the one-child policy. The Southern plantation owners got used to whipping slaves. I have a book called Slavery Defended: the Views of the Old South where educated, respectable use all the sophistry of education, philosophy, history, economics and religion to defend the deplorable practice of the slavery of Africans. Now educated, respectable men and women contend that homosexuality is in a person's DNA, that gay people were born that way. Well, I think they're wrong. I’m not equating homosexual behavior with owning slaves. Let me think of another, less inflammatory example.
My record player makes this constant low buzzing sound whenever I listen to records. It’s kind of annoying, but if I want to listen to records, I need to put up with the sound. I’ve gotten used to the sound. I’ve contented myself with it. If I listen to the record player long enough, I might think that the low buzzing sound is normal, that it will always be there. Maybe it’s the same way with homosexuality. It’s not really normal, and there’s a better way out there, but people get used to it.
My responses wouldn't fit in one comment.
“Did you consciously choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?”
No, I didn’t. Was I born attracted to women? I guess so.
“But what kind of life would that be to act against your nature that way? Why should gay people be expected to act against their nature?”
I realize that it’s really really hard for people who consider themselves innately homosexual to either become celibate or heterosexual. I can sympathize with them, but I can’t empathize with them. (I always have to look those words up if I want to use them correctly. Ha ha ha.) And maybe I should have written in my blog post that homosexuals ought to become converted to Christ, and then their behavior will organically change. Should I have been less harsh in my tone?
But to answer your question about why should people be expected to act in a way contrary to their nature, I’ll quote Mosiah 3: 19 : “For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit…”
There are all sorts of times when we need to act contrary to our natures for the benefit of society, and for the benefit of our families and ourselves. For example, I think it is in my nature to be sexually promiscuous. I try not to be, but I’m attracted to women besides my wife. And not just celebrities like Nicole Kidman and Natalie Portman and Amy Adams (why am I always attracted to the liberals? Ha ha ha) but with women around town, you know? And what do I do with these feelings of attraction? Sometimes I entertain them for a moment, and I think that’s wrong, but most of the time I try to suppress these thoughts. I take seriously Christ’s Sermon on the Mount, in which he preaches in Matthew 5:28 “But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” I also try to avoid situations where I’m tempted to break the law of chastity.
(By the way, my wife, if you’re reading this, I would just remind you about some of the conversations we’ve had about Dennis Prager’s male/female hour. Even though I acknowledge my fallen nature, I am loyal to you, my wife. And I’m attracted to you and I love you, um… but I don’t want to get too gushy on Telemoonfa Time, OK?)
So when I ask homosexuals to suppress their sexuality, I’m not asking them to do anything that I don’t do myself. Well, maybe I am. But you know what I mean, right?
Paul Bird,
You wrote,
"Also, let their own conscience be the judge. its really not your place to make appeals to your own religion to condemn homosexuals."
"Condemn" is a really strong word. I don't think I condemned homosexuals. I try to separate the person from the behavior. That's why I titled my blog post, "Homosexual behavior is sinful", not, "Homosexuals are sinful."
I kind of think it is my place to call people to repentance. D + C 38:41 "And let your preaching be the warning voice, every man to his neighbor, in mildness and in meekness."
OK, so sometimes I can work on being mild in meek on Telemoonfa Time, but still, I'm trying to warn my neighbors and spread the gospel. Followers of our LDS religion do have an obligation to preach to the whole world.
Some might say, "you can't tell me what to do, because I don't belong to your church." This reminds me of Alma 8: 11- 12:
"Nevertheless, they hardened their hearts, saying unto him: Behold, we know that thou art Alma; and we know that thou art high priest over the church which thou hast established in many parts of the land, according to your tradition; and we are not of thy church, and we do not believe in such foolish traditions.
And now we know that because we are not of thy church we know that thou hast no power over us; and thou hast delivered up the judgment-seat unto Nephihah; therefore thou art not the chief judge over us."
Those unbelievers are missing the point. The gospel applies to everyone, in the church and out of the church. I realize we preach to people differently depending on whether they are members of the church. This is the way Alma preached. Alma 5:62:
"I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life."
Paul, you also wrote "Blogging is probably not the best way to bring up touchy topics like this telemoonfa."
I see no problem with publicly saying that homosexual behavior is sinful. Have you noticed that preaching these days is so much more watered down? Look at the way Jesus preached in Matthew 23:29:
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the bprophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
How can we apply these scriptures to our lives? How can we be a little more like Jesus? We can preach boldly! We can condemn sin! Shout it from the rooftops, brother! I think our secular society could use a little more hellfire and damnation, don't you?
I believe any one who blames God for their own sins is lying. I do not believe God makes people sin. If he did he would not be good or God. God will not take away man's free agency. Predestination is a false teaching, a lie, a big lie.
Telemoonfa, FYI I also chose to quit voting for my congressman Jim Kolbe after he came out of the closet. I do not think I am homophobic, but I did not want a homosexual representing me.
a side note. One reason I quit taking the newspaper years ago was when they ( a liberal editor ) tried to convince me and their other readers that my relationship with my wife was the same as a homosexual relationship. Another liberal lie.
Anonymous 6:54,
You said, "I do not believe God makes people sin. If he did he would not be good or God."
Or perhaps what you consider a sin is not a sin to God. Is that a possibility?
The Boid
To begin with human sexuality is not one or the other, it’s on a scale. It is possible to be sexually/mentally attracted to both sexes i.e. bisexual, in which case it is easy to see how a person can go from a homosexual relationship to a heterosexual one and back again without ever being untrue to themselves in either relationship. There is also pansexual, that is not even noticing gender and falling in love with a person, either male or female. And then there are asexual people who are not attracted to anyone and have no particular sexual desires. Most people have experienced thoughts/desires of both sexes, however slight. And I have found though empirical study that those who are the most anti-gay are really just scared of the homosexual desires in themselves.
Also what about post-op transsexuals? These people have who have felt so wrong, so uncomfortable in the body god gave them that they are willing to undergo extreme surgical procedures, and a lifetime of hormones treatments just to be who they think they were meant to be. How did god get them so wrong?
As far as family values are concerned, did you ever think that for a homosexual couples to have children they have to really want them. They can’t just get knocked up and have a child that was not really wanted. Homosexuals, especially gay men, have to go through a lengthy and expensive adoption process or find a surrogate, again a lengthy and expensive process. Even lesbian couples, who have a little easier time with sperm banks, have to really go though the thought process and really want the child. Who is going to really be the better parent? Really.
Also just like my arguments will probably not sway you at all, all your bible quoting means nothing to some who doesn’t believe in god, or sin.
We evolved in nature, we are nature, and to deny that natural state, to think ourselves above and beyond the natural world that provides for us is the only sin I can think of.
2+2=4 Sin is Sin. God is the judge of what is sin. I have faith that Gods judgement will be just.
Zappalinda. Here is something for you to ponder.If every thing is only nature and chemical reactions placebos would not work, and there would be no miracles. Placebos do work and miracles happen.
The reason you shouldn't put it on you blog is because you induce a lot of hateful comments and hatred between your brothers and sisters. But of course this country provides for free speech and you can say whatever you want.
the plus side to putting it on your blog is all the comments are put through the barrier of the internet. And internet is not real life.
But can we all agree that American Government is Godless?
I know I shouldn't look that far into this but: I watched the movie "Act of Valor" And I couldn't help but notice that all the Navy Seals (in the movie) never prayed, none of them had or wore a cross, no quotes to the bible or anything Christian.
And that made me wonder if patriotism is putting my trust in the flesh of man, and patriotism is really not trusting in God.
Act of Valor did however- point out that all the bad guys were either Jewish or Islamic. I was told I read too far into the movie.
Homosexuality is a sin according to a few major religions: but America is not a major religion. Nor does it subscribe to a major religion.
i think you are right Paul, the american government is godless, and part of its founding is the idea that one people should not be able to enforce their religion through the law.
one of the things about laws, is that they change. interracial marriage used to be against the law.
and dad, placebos work because the human brain is a very powerful organ. did you know that the brain, when a person is going blind, will often populate that field of vision with what it thinks should be there, often these people will not accept they are going blind and will walk into walls and off sidewalks. they didn't see it because they are blind, but they saw the image their mind created there for them, which turned out to be incorrect. i know this because i used to work with blind people.
Telemoonfa, I believe there are educated, respectable people on both sides of this issue (and virtually every other issue). Reasonable minds can disagree and often do.
I also agree that people can learn to put with lots of things, even perhaps a living arrangement that goes against their primary sexual preference. This is a valid point. But I still think that sexuality is a spectrum, as Zappalinda described. And for those who tilt towards the homosexual side of the spectrum, I have no problem with them living as such. To me that is not sin.
I also agree that people should not indulge in every animal instinct. I believe in monogomy and fidelity. I believe these things apply to both straight and gay people. I think you and your gay counterpart should both suppress your sexuality to the extent that it would violate the commitment you have made to your spouse/partner.
Paul, I know things can get lost in translation on the internet, but I have no hatred for any of my siblings, parents, or any other member of my family. I'm sorry if any of my comments come across as hateful. If so, it was totally unintentional. They were not written with a hateful spirit.
I don't think patriotism is putting your trust in the arm of flesh, unless you think that our political leaders are incapable of error. But I doubt you think that. America has a lot of reasons to inspire patriotism. I haven't seen Act of Valor so I can't comment on it.
The Boid
" We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion."
" Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams
" Is there no virtue among us ? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks-no form of government can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. "
James Madison
" Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."
George Washington
Morals and religion are culturally stipulated. In some religions it is considered a moral necessity to stone to death any female who has been raped, or any girl that has had contact with the opposite sex. In some religions it is a virtue to kill anyone who doesn't share in the religion. In some cultures female genital mutilation is considered moral and virtuous.
I find it silly when people quote of the founding fathers as if they were gods, but since we are here are some other quotes:
“The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion." 1797 the treaty of Tripoli, signed by President Washington, and approved by the Senate of the United States
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should `make no law respecting establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and state." Thomas Jefferson, Letter, Danbury Baptist Assn. January 1, 1802
"As I say, not all of Jefferson's ideas were popular, though most of them were absolutely right.…He was also called an atheist because he didn't believe in a state church, an official church of the government, and in fact made it clear that he didn't much like any church at all, though he did admire many, though not all, of the teachings of religion.…And you'll recall that it was Jefferson, as governor of Virginia, who wrote the Statute of Religious Liberty in 1786, which said that ‘no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship’ but that all people ‘shall be free to profess…their opinion in matters of religion.’ He summed up very bluntly one time his view that no man harmed anyone else in choosing and practicing his own religion, or no religion. ‘It does me no injury,’ he said, ‘for my neighbor to say that there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’" Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) 33rd U.S. President
here are some other quote:
"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." – Thomas Jefferson
"He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of the tongue leads to that of the heart, and it time depraves all its good dispositions." Jefferson (1785)
“Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains”- Jefferson
" It is the eternal struggle between these two principles- right and wrong- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. "
Abraham Lincoln
Telemoonfa,
I don't think it is hate speech, because I know you are not a hateful person. But this is not love speech either. I think this is just ignorant speech.
You are correct that there is right and wrong in the world. But a blanket statement that homosexuality is wrong is as ignorant as all of the following statements (none of which I believe, I'm just trying to make my point):
All religion is bull-crap.
All conservative political ideas are bad ideas.
All people from Arizona are racist.
All Muslims sympathize with violent jihadists.
All people on welfare are lazy.
Do you see what I am getting at? Could it be that the reality of being homosexual or not is not as black-and-white as you perceive it?
The Boid
Good thoughts and good read. The homosexual issue runs deep. It's a western scientific philosophy that seeks desperately to look at the individual parts to understand the whole. This viewpoint sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. It works if I take apart my Pontiac Sunfire, put it back together and turn it on, but it doesn't work when I disassemble my dog and expect it to be wagging it's tail afterwards.
The greater collection of all humanity and what makes a person gay, whether choice, nature, nurture or too much exposure to Bugs Bunny in drag is almost a moot point and cannot and probably should not be explored. The real focus should be the social implications. It was called the "Great social experiment" because we really don't know what's going to happen and what affects are going to take place.
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